The Joy Thieves have never been interested in playing it safe. With Apocalypse Pending, that instinct for experimentation reaches a new level, bringing together fragments, breakbeats and contributions from more than 80 musicians in a dense, abrasive and deliberately unpredictable project. Drawing on the production techniques of late-’80s and early-’90s hip hop, alongside the experimental spirit of industrial music, the project turns its usual creative process on its head.

By Sandra Pinto

Behind this ambitious production are Dan Milligan and James Scott, the team behind Joy Thieves Productions, with vocals from Chris Connelly adding another dimension to the album’s sound and intensity. For this interview, we spoke with Dan Milligan about the making of Apocalypse Pending, its unconventional production process, the role of Connelly’s vocals, and the meeting point between industrial music and hip hop.

“Apocalypse Pending” pushes your collective concept further than ever — what was the main idea behind this album?
Musically, the main idea was to see if we could use some of the hiphop production techniques of the late 80’s/early 90’s to push The Joy Thieves’ sound into a brand new direction. In terms of the lyrics, Chris Connelly was feeling extremely angry about the state of the world, so ‘Apocalypse Pending’ became a collection of his thoughts on the matter.

This time you reversed your creative process, building songs from fragments — what inspired that decision?
It’s extremely important to me that The Joy Thieves are continually moving forward into new territory. Once you’ve found a formula that works, it becomes REALLY easy to use the same songwriting and production techniques, over and over again. And while there is certainly a comfort in that, it feels amazing to step away from some of the tried and true methods, in order to attempt something brand new. I do ’t know….for some reason, I was suddenly compelled to change up our process. It just felt like the perfect time for a reinvention.
At the time, I was almost exclusively listening to old school hiphop music. And while I’ve been a fan of that style of music since it was originally being released, I had never really tried to create music in that way. The combination of these two things started me down the road of trying to create this new sound for The Joy Thieves.

Was there a moment during production where you thought this approach might not work?
No, I wouldn’t say that I ever considered that it just wouldn’t work at all. I have the utmost confidence in myself, and my production partner, James Scott. I knew that in some form or fashion we would be able to create something we liked. That said, I will say that towards the beginning of the process, I did find myself getting a little nervous about how an abrupt change like this might affect the sound of the band. But the more nervous I became, the more I felt like I wanted this new challenge!

I had never really tried to create music in that way. The combination of these two things started me down the road of trying to create this new sound for The Joy Thieves.

You mention hip hop production techniques from the ’80s and ’90s — how did that influence shape the final sound?
While ’Apocalypse Pending’ sounds nothing like a hiphop album, those production techniques influenced every single aspect of the creation of the music. On all of our previous releases, I would write most of the music, and then send demos of the songs to other members of the group, who would then add to them. On ‘Apocalypse Pending’ we reversed the entire process. Many of these songs started with me recreating and modernizing some of the most famous breakbeats of all time. “Funky Drummer” by James Brown…”Ashley’s Roachclip” by The Soul Searchers….”Apache” by The Incredible Bongo Band, etc. Then, I sent these beats to The Joy Thieveswith no instructions, and no musical key, and they recorded their ideas. Once I had collected a bunch of disparate musical pieces, I started to combine them in different ways, much like a DJ would combine several musical elements together, in an effort to create something new and different.

Referencing producers like RZA or The Bomb Squad, what elements did you want to bring into an industrial context?
Hiphop and industrial music have a lot in common. There’s an experimental energy that fuels both genres, and that’s something that really appeals to me. The line of thinking that prompted hiphop producers to make albums using stacks of old records and 2 turntables is the same line of thinking that led to the original industrial bands of the 70’s to create with tape loops and power tools.
I’ve always been fascinated with the way that hiphop producers can combine elements from multiple different songs, often in different keys and tempos, and create a song that sounds nothing like the original pieces. But much of that source material, especially back in the 80’s
and 90’s, was based on old soul, Motown, disco, and classic rock albums. I began to wonder what those producers would create if they’s been raised on a diet of alt-rock music, like *I* was.

What would RZA or The Bomb Squad create out of albums by The Jesus Lizard? Or Fugazi? Or Ministry? With over 80 contributors, how do you maintain coherence while embracing chaos?
From the very beginning, I understood how easy it would be for a project like this to slip into utter chaos. For all of the interesting things that come out of “supergroup” collaborations like this, they’re almost ALWAYS chaotic. Or at the very least unfocused. And so, we made it our mission to not allow that to happen. I guess ultimately, it has to do with the work that James Scott and I put in at Populist Recording. There are MANY contributors, yes…but when you’re working in the studio, someone has to make some extremely hard decisions. And while it’s not an easy job, it’s one that we are happy to do. When it comes to mixing, James and I are extremely similar. We’re both meticulous, detail- oriented, and extremely focused. And while that’s not the crazy, frenetic energy that many people might imagine when they think about working in a recording studio, I truly believe that channeling the chaotic musical output of 80+ members through our laser-focused lens is The Joy Thieves’ secret sauce.

I’ve always been fascinated with the way that hiphop producers can combine elements from multiple different songs, often in different keys and tempos, and create a song that sounds nothing like the original pieces.

Do you see The Joy Thieves more as a band or as an evolving creative system?
I’ve never really seen The Joy Thieves as a band, in the typical sense. We don’t get together and jam, the way that most bands do. I actually really like your description of us as “an evolving creative system.” I might have to steal that (smile).

Chris Connelly’s presence is very striking on this record — how did his vocal approach shape the album’s identity?
Chris is a force of nature that shapes every musical project he touches. While he made appearances on several of our earlier releases, I think The Joy Thieves truly hit our stride with the release of 2021’s “American Parasite,” which featured him on all of the lead vocals. It suddenly felt like we had found a sound that was resonating with ourselves,  and with others. There was a cohesiveness that I loved, and as we began making this album, I knew I wanted that same sort of cohesion. I am extremely grateful to be able to work with someone as gifted and unique as Chris. He is the ultimate lyrical messenger for The Joy Thieves.

The lyrics are described as “violently anti-fascist” — what urgency drove that message on this record?
This is probably a question better suited for Chris, as he wrote all of the lyrics. But I do know that much of the urgency came from the current state of political affairs here in the US. Chris came to this country from Scotland back in the late 80’s. So, for that reason alone, I know it made it even harder for him to watch as ICE agents terrorized immigrants here in Chicago, and around the country. He has expressed to me that as a songwriter, he feels compelled to make his feelings known about the world around him, as it’s the way he feels like he can best contribute to the conversation. And I am with him 100%. It’s an honor to be able to provide the musical backdrop for his thoughts.

Do you see this album as a reaction to the current political and social climate?
Absolutely.

 Tracks like “No Anchor” and “The Wrong End of Your Rifle” feel deeply tied to  modern anxiety — what themes were you most focused on exploring?
To hear Chris tell it, he doesn’t approach The Joy Thieves’ music with a clear idea of what he wants to say. Instead, the instrumental tracks we send him push him in a certain direction….and then the lyrics simply come to him.
In other words, we didn’t get together and decide to write this album about the current political situation in our country. But the music we presented to him guided him in that direction, and he simply followed where it was leading him.

How important is it for you to reflect the “zeitgeist” in your music?
If people resonate with the music and the message, that’s great. But it’s not the goal. And it’s certainly nothing that crosses my mind when we’re actually creating the music.

The album blends industrial, punk, hip hop, jazz, and more — do you think genre still matters for The Joy Thieves?
By it’s very nature, I think “industrial” music should be experimental…and that gives us a lot of room to explore. In the beginning, it seemed more important to be able to label our music as something in particular, just so people would have an understanding of what we’re doing.
But, over the last few years, I’ve felt much less attached to genres.

Is there a risk of losing listeners when pushing experimentation this far, or is that part of the mission?
Yes, I suppose that’s always a risk. I wouldn’t say it’s “part of the mission,” because that implies that we’re thinking about how the music will be received as we’re making it. And frankly speaking, we’re not.

What was the biggest creative challenge during the making of this album?
For me, the biggest challenge was figuring out how to take hundreds and hundreds of disparate musical pieces, and combine them into one cohesive sound. When trying something like this for the first time, there are no short cuts. It just boils down to hundreds of hours of trial and error.

After 11 releases, how does “Apocalypse Pending” redefine The Joy Thieves?
I hope that the release of ‘Apocalypse Pending’ helps redefine us as a musical project that is willing to take risks, and bend and break genres at will.

Do you feel like you’ve reached a new phase, or is this just another step in constant evolution?
I think both are true. We’ve definitely reached a new phase, AND it’s another step in the band’s evolution. Honestly, the creation and release of ‘Apocalypse Pending’ has me feeling more excited about the band than ever.

How do you translate such a complex, layered record into a live performance? Can audiences expect the same intensity and fragmentation on stage?
Short answer…we don’t. As of now, The Joy Thieves exists as a means of writing, recording, and releasing music. There are no plans to perform live at this point in time.

If “Apocalypse Pending” is a reflection of collapse, is there any sense of hope within the record?
This album is a pure expression of anger. And I think that any time there’s an expression of anger, there’s hope. It means you care.

What do you want listeners to feel or question after hearing this album?
Obviously, there’s always a hope that the music we create will touch people’s lives. But one of my favorite parts about music is that no two people hear the music the same way. For that reason, I find it hard to tell you what I hope other people will feel. That said, I DO hope that hearing the album inspires others to continue to be creative in their own lives. Have something to say? Wanna try something different?  Do it. Now.

Bandcamp here